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» ICC Bulletin Board » Code Chat » Fire Codes » sprinklers in elevator shafts

   
Author Topic: sprinklers in elevator shafts
peach
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required or no? let's ASSUME we have a smoke/heat detection system in place... I'm thinking in that scenario, no sprinklers required... (my NFPA 13 is in the mail)

on the off hand if none of the heat/smoke detection system is installed, I'll assume top and bottom of shaft sprinklers are required...
(which is what is proposed for this particular project)

--------------------
Thanks for the memories.. Frank (old blue eyes) Sinatra

Posts: 6160 | From: metro DC | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
cda
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Depends on the construction material of the shaft if a sprinkler head is required will get you a code reference. I want to say out of 13.

Normally if no sprinklers than smoke only at top of shaft.

The heat is there only to shut down the electric prior to the head going off.

Sprinkler at bottom only in some cases will try to get you code reference.

Posts: 6255 | From: Had to move to parent's basement without code compliant escape window | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
peach
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I've heard arguements both ways.. until I have NFPA 13 in my grubby hands .. I can't determine.. I have a project with such convulated requirements, it's hard to determine what we should be looking at .. oh well, me and everyone else, I guess

--------------------
Thanks for the memories.. Frank (old blue eyes) Sinatra

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hazmatpoobah
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From the 2007 edition of NFPA 13 (which is not adopted in the IFC but it is the one I can electronically access while traveling).

-- Sprinklers are required at the bottom of each hoistway, unless the elevator shaft is constructed of noncombustible materials and do not contain combustible hydraulic fluids. To determine if the fluid is combustible, one will need to review the MSDS. It is has a flash point, I would probably treat it as a combustible liquid.

-- Sprinklers in elevator machine rooms shall be intermediate or high temperature sprinkler. ASME A17.1 requires that the elevator power be disconnected before sprinkler activation occurs. I recomend smoke detection that recalls the elevator and disconnects the power before this occurs. Additional information is available in Annex A of NFPA 13.

-- Sprinklers are not required at the top of the shaft when the elevator car meets ASME A17.1 and the shaft is noncombustible.

See NFPA 13, section 8.15.5

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peach
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I'm glad I'm not an elevator inspector !!

--------------------
Thanks for the memories.. Frank (old blue eyes) Sinatra

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cda
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The great OZ / Scott has spoken and concur.

And once again if sprinklers are not required no need for heat detector unless some AHj still requires it.

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Scott McCormick
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It speaking with several elevator contractors that work in this town, the only non-combustible hydraulic fluid is made for the Military and is very-very expensive.
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CNY Elevator Consultants
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A clarification:

Generally in new installations with a fully spinklered building, sprinklers are not required at the top of the shaft, but would be required at not more than 2ft above the pit of a hydraulic elevator.

NFPA 72-2002 prohibts the use of smoke detectors in the shaft except as follows: (1) when the shaft has a sprinklers, and/or (2) when the smoke detector is required to open a normally closed smoke detector operated smoke vent. (Please note that ICC inexplicably also requires that when a smoke operated vent is present all of the designated lobby detectors must also open the vent.- something that is not recognized by NFPA, and is something that is in need of immediate addressing by ICC)

A heat detector would only be required if there were a sprinkler present. (However a normally closed vent could be operated by heat detectors or fusible link.) Note that, if required, the pit sprinkler is required to be not more than 2ft from the head and to be a lower RTI than the sprinkler. Since the detector RTI is difficult to establish, always make sure the sprinkler is at least a 200F head and ORDINARY response (the contractor will almost certainly put in QRES if you don't watch him). The heat detectors should then be 135F and Fixed resonse. (Fixed to prevent accidental trips caused by rapid air temperature changes due to the "piston effect" of the elevator moving between floors.)

Let me note here that it is not clear that the sprinkler in the pit is not be required to have a smoke detector or heat detector present. However, because there is no requirement for shunt trip to be initiated by this pit sprinkler supply, it would be my opinion that the early warning of smoke detection and heat detection is unecessary. Keep in mind that the pit sprinkler is mostly there for accumlation of trash, however it has been interpreted by some that the sprinkler is required when hydaulic fluid is present in the pit. This reasoning is a bit weak because the oil is contained within a vessel, namely the cylinder and supply piping. Addtionally the flash point is signifcantly high enough that the chances of a hydrualic fluid being the source of fuel is very smal. Never the less, in general, so long as the detectors and shunt aren't required, the pit sprinkler is a pretty minor concern and does not add an significant cost to the building. I do recommend a monitored shut of valve outside the pit and a flow switch ahead of the sprinkler because if it ever goes off you're going to have a hell of a time trying to figure out where the flow is without it. (If it has a flow switch, it needs a test valve too.)

One additonal thought: when the sprinkler is placed in the pit, all electrical equipment is required to be installed not less than 48" from the pit floor. Unfortunately that could be interpereted as meaning equipment like conveinence outlets and lighting, when I think a more logical interpretation is simply for electrical equipment related to the operation of the elevator. Modern installations would require all GFI ccts (except the sump pump) and protected lighting circuts so the chance of accidental shock is pretty remote.

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Thank you,
Dan Winslow
http://www.cnyelevatorconsultants.com

Posts: 76 | From: Central New York | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
   

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